SOTD #650: puRRil vaazh from Thiruvasagam

[bb]

Song of the Day: puRRil vaazh from Thiruvasagam.

http://www.dhool.com/sotd2/650.html

- The SOTD is the sixth song from Thiruvasagam by Ilayaraja. Sung by IR himself.

- I received the album by mail from the TiS USA group last week. Considering all that they've gone through, I think Sankar Kumar and his folks need to be given a huge credit for being instrumental in bringing this album out. I've been following the effort right from the day Sridhar Seetharaman started the thread in tfmpage about this, and the efforts of these volunteers are just astounding. Sure, things could have been done better, but given that this is the first time such a project was being done, to get the album in hand itself was a culmination of all their efforts over such a long time.

I think in the media coverage back in India, and in the album cover itself, the US group didn't get the credit that it deserved.

It will be interesting to see their final financial charts and see how they fared. It will be interesting to see if they can sell 5K or 10K CDs in US alone.

- The album seems to have been produced well. The booklet that came with it was well designed. The handwritten lyrics (written by IR himself? ) helped me understand a few words that were unclear from listening to the album.

- Coming to the album itself, after listening to it many times, I got the feeling that it was really underwhelming. The album had lots of glimpses of IR's genius, and had musical moments that gave me goosebumps, but it left me unsatisfied.

- The masterpiece of the album is the second song, "pollaa vinaiyEn". It runs for about 20 minutes and is easily the piece in which IR brings out the essence of what he has to convey about Thiruvasagam. The juxtaposition of Thiruvasagam verses with English lyrics (which are simple or cheesy depending on your outlook) worked really well. The piece culminates with a crescendo that was a fitting end to this long song.

- I think the sixth song, "puRRil vaazh aravum" was designed by IR to be the first piece of the album, but somehow it ended as the last one. It starts off with IR saying "idhu thaan symphony orchestravaa?" with a naive tone that was very cheesy and annoying. I agree with Venkat that it was not in good taste. The sixth song is easily hummable and latches on quickly.

- The main downside of the album for me was IR's singing. I shake my head wondering why he decided to sing all these songs himself. Didn't he visualize anyone else singing? Didn't Father Gasper or anyone else point out that may be a better singer will add more value? He is off-key so many times that I lost count. He strains, sounds nasal and struggles to reach high pitch. My doubt is, did he think these are minor things that people won't notice? Doesn't good singing matter? I understand that IR brings a load of spiritual luggage with his voice, he sounds like a "believer", his voice portrays the emotion and so on, but again, doesn't good singing matter? Are there not singers who can do a much better job? If these things didn't matter, why bother with a pitch perfect orchestra and all that? That was all done for the musical value, right? Then why not have the singing match that?

- I expected more from the orchestra, but IR has used it predominantly as a melody follower to his singing. In his film songs, he has given us so many fascinating counterpoints and other gems of Western Classical music, but in this album, the orchestra doesn't give us much other than following the melody with its strings and flutes. There are no length instrumental pieces or memorable themes that the orchestra plays with aplomb. I felt that we were served with only "appaLam and oorukaai" where IR could have given us more.

- Bhavatharini manages to come through and delivers her song well. The fifth song, sung by a number of singers other that IR, has also come out well. It makes me wonder how the other songs would have sounded if they were sung by different singers.

- There is a lot more that I want to write on the album, but I will leave that for later.

Is this album worth listening? Absolutely.
Is this IR's best creative effort? Not at all.
Is this a pure Western classical crossover? No.
Is this album so unmarketable that it needed to be made in this tortuous fashion? No. If L.Subramaniam can come out with "Live in Moscow" with the Russian orchestra (Actually, I won't rate his effort to be any lower that IR's), IR could have easily made this album with a music label with much less hassle.
Is this something that an Indian orchestra couldn't have done? I doubt it. I think an Indian orchestra would have had no less an impact.
Has IR delivered his magnum opus? I think this is just a start. Since the feedback from all quarters is mostly positive, IR should do more of these.

- Sabarivasan writes:

However much one tries to have an open mind, when an album of this scale by a composer of this stature releases, it is impossible to not have any expectations built up. It definitely does not help when the composer himself makes a statement about the album (Water, anyone?). In this case, I believe Ilayaraja made a statement to the effect that every composer in his/her career comes across an opportunity to create music that he/she is destined for and he believes that Thiruvasagam was his.

I have talked about my expectations of the quality of music in this album. An added difficulty in this case was what type of music to expect. The title of the album is “Thiruvasagam in Symphony” but the release function had a big banner with the text “An Oratorio by Ilayaraja”.

Now a Symphony and an Oratorio are entirely different beasts. The latter came into being in the Baroque period and can be loosely defined as an opera based on a religious subject, usually Biblical, which leads us to a description of an opera. The opera became popular because the Baroque became fascinated by the theater. The opera combined poetry, musical, vocal virtuosity, dance into one and became popular. Handel’s Messiah is probably the most famous oratorio that is still being played today. Now, vocal virtuosity is exactly the element that is missing in this album. It is appalling indeed to see Ilayaraja singing himself. His voice does not sound as old as it has in recent times but for an album of this stature, why would he choose to render all the songs? He (and everyone in his family, I might add) has been making this mistake for a long time in Tamil movies. It would be interesting to know what goes through a composer’s head before deciding to use his/her voice for a song. I have seen Ilayaraja spoil many a brilliant song by choosing to sing it himself. This is the biggest blunder of Ilayaraja as far as Thiruvasagam goes. Even if he was worried by about Tamil pronunciation, there are so many people who could have replaced him effectively. The choice of the tenor to sing the English lyrics was also a disappointment in my opinion. There are so many tenors with more magnetic and majestic voices. The chorus, both Tamil and English, on the other hand, was very effective.

The Symphony is meant to be an impressive concert piece, displaying the variety and flexibility of sound that can be played by the various components of an orchestra. Thiruvasagam, once again, does not resemble a symphony. A symphony is a multi-movement piece of varied pace. However much I tried I could not find anything in the album that I could find to fit the definition of a symphony. I was trying to see if we could treat each piece as a single movement of a symphony (the first or the slow movement as the case may be) but none of them had a definite form like Sonata form. The musical themes of the pieces were different enough that one could not call them Exposition, Development and Recapitulation. Another form I tried was the classical variation form, with a theme followed by a series of variations, each of which different from one another. If you listen to the different verses, there is definitely not much different from one to another and there is no sequence or logical progression from one to the next.

So, I decided to view this album as religious verses set to music accompanied by a symphony orchestra and choir. If one were to look at the pieces with this perspective, one is definitely left with a lot of material to deal with. It seems also that Ilayaraja, for the most part was thinking of “tunes” in his head and trying to beautify with orchestral instruments. The last piece in the album (where Ilayaraja starts with “Idhudhaan Symphony Orchestra vaa?” also seems to bolster this argument). He finds a tune and tries to fit a Thiruvasagam verse to the tune. He discards one verse because the words do not seem to fit perfectly. Unfortunately this is how classical music is composed.

That said, I have tried to write my feelings down as I listen to the longest piece, intended to be its highlight. I have only listened to it 4 times, much less than the usual number before I write something about it.

Ilayaraja starts the piece with “Polla Vinayae”. Almost immediately, the strings take over.
At 0:45, you would hear strings playing a single note immediately followed by a bass drum, playing 3 notes. This is a neat thing that has been done several times in classical music (the one I remember off the top of my head is one of Tchaikovsky’s symphonies - 4th if I am not mistaken).
The soprano sings the English phrase (“I am just a man...”). Ilayaraja’s genius for orchestration starts showing as soon as 1:15, when the 2nd violins playing staccato and crescendo up to be accompanied by 1st violins playing a wonderful theme. It lasts only 10-12 seconds though. Somehow at this stage, I don’t like the English voice as much as Ilayaraja’s voice. “Gnanamagi...chudarae” is backed by wonderful flute and strings in the background. At this stage, the harp makes its first appearance. Male chorus follows suit at 2:45. A solo Indian violin (this is interesting. None of the violins in a traditional western orchestra sound Indian, so I am sure this instrument must have been brought from India. The question is, did an Indian play this or did a member of the original Budapest Symphony orchestra play this?) “yezhanchufies” at this stage to lead to the end of the 1st part of this piece, marked by the orchestra (and the strings) singing the same note in unison twice.
We are only 3:30 into the piece and already so much material has been packed already into it. (Please don’t tell me that Ilayaraja composed this extemporaneously like he does Tamil film music).

The 2nd part starts up being more lively and high paced. At 4:20, the harp makes its 2nd appearance followed by the oboe. The highlight of the 2nd part is that it is the 1st time the Indian and the western chorus merge together. There are 4 choruses in total, Indian (Tamil) male, Indian (Tamil) female, Western (English) male and Western (Tamil) female, in addition to Ilayaraja and the tenor’s voices. Ilayaraja uses all of them exceedingly well throughout the piece, whether to build up the momentum or slow down a crescendo created by the orchestra, or for pure melody. At no place during the entire piece are you surprised by or annoyed by any of them. I believe (and many agree) that Mozart’s music is extremely simple, it almost makes logical sense once you hear it or you see it on paper, but it is impossible for anyone to create something like it. I think this piece makes me feel the same way.

The 3rd part goes “Namasivaya vaazhga” and is very impressive backed by tamil and english chorus. In terms of orchestra, it is accompanied by several strings, flute from the woodwinds, bass drum and triangle from percusson section. Pity it lasts only 1.30.

Without an exception, all the transitions are very smooth, again to Ilayaraja’ credit, particularly in a long piece like this.

The part from 7:30 is where I lost a little bit of interest. I thought the orchestra, particularly the strings simply follow the voices without doing anything special.
The part from 10:15 is for the tenor to show his mettle. The 1st time piano is used for a limited time. But since the tenor’s voice is not impressive by any means, this part fails to make its mark.

Ilayaraja comes back for some more verses at 11:45 culminating at 12.50 for a series of verses with the Indian male chorus repeats last word of each of the verses rendered by Ilayaraja. This would have so much more impressive if someone else sang it. One more notable point in this part is that the orchestra does not play at all for almost 3 minutes.

At 14:45, another beautiful tune “Maasatra jothi..” is rendered by Ilayaraja and Tamil female chorus accompanied mostly by strings and woodwinds, bass drum playing a simple rhythm. This part is very beautiful albeit being completely Tamil (nothing western about it). Ilayaraja could have made some 5 songs in Tamil movies with the material in this 2:30 part.

To me, the ending of the piece is the best one hands down. The last 2:50 minutes of the song starting around 17:55 “Eesan adi potri” has all parts of the chorus playing alternately, each one handing over the baton to the other and everything works magically and seemlessly. For one example, listen to “Namasivaya vaazhga” sung by the female Indian chorus immediately followed by the female Western chorus, pure genius. All of them work towards the ending in a typical operatic crescendo.

Overall, this piece is definitely the pick of the album. Very moving indeed.

People say that they have a spiritual experience and they were brought to tears when they listened to this piece with their eyes closed. Well, I did not have one, nor did I cry. (I do give you the fact that I am not a very religious person but I did cry when I first heard the 1st movement from Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, Mozart’s 25th Symphony and Mozart’s Requiem.). I will say this much: I don’t think I have heard a piece like this before that blends Tamil lyrics and Tamil-style singing so well with western orchestration and operatic singing. In my opinion, saying anything beyond this would not be justice. Calling it a symphony or an oratorio is probably a little bit of a stretch. (Interestingly, just yesterday, my friends and I were listening to “Hazir” by Hariharan and discussing how he likes to call it (and other albums) a collection of authentic Ghazals. We can all be nice and help preserve the fiction.).

One big disappointment for me from this album is the absence of pure instrumentals or atleast instrument-dominated pieces. An overture to the album akin to an overture to an opera would have been lovely. Given Ilayaraja’s musical gift and for orchestration in particular, that would have been a very good idea.

The 2nd disappointment was that the all the elements of the orchestra were not used. The strings section was used well. In the woodwinds section, I remember the flute and oboe used sparingly but none of the others. The brass section was hardly used (I vaguely remember there being trombone on another piece).

Several times, I asked myself this question: Aren’t there Ilayaraja songs already that have out-of-the-world orchestration that are decades ahead of its time?. If I were to listen to the beginning of “Edho Mogam” from “Kozhi Koovudhu” played by the same orchestra, wouldn’t it have similar impact than this one? (Just imagine 50 violins playing the piece with the same crispness that we hear in the Budapest Symphony Orchestra.)
To answer this question, I picked up my “Devadhai” CD, loaded it into my player, closed my eyes and listened to “Oru Naal”. I must say it had a big impact. “Oru Naal” has almost the same elements as this one: lovely strings, female and male chorus, grandeur, etc. I am not sure how many people will agree with me on this point.

I am not sure if people noticed this but Unnikrishnan sings a single line (3 secs total). What’s up with that? I am not sure if Ilayaraja had a complete piece for Unnikrishnan which was later left out. Unnikrishnan was also apparently present in the CD release function.

I am very happy to see Ilayaraja finally looking at serious music much beyond Tamil film music. In my opinion, he should stop scoring music for movies and concentrate only on attempts like this one. Who knows, in five years, we might have a full-scale Tamil opera seria set to amazing music by our man. If he is not the first Indian to do it first, I am not sure who can.

- Review by MS: http://www.dhool.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3057

[bb]

Song of the Day: puRRil vaazh from Thiruvasagam.

http://www.dhool.com/sotd2/650.html

- The SOTD is the sixth song from Thiruvasagam by Ilayaraja. Sung by IR himself.

- I received the album by mail from the TiS USA group last week. Considering all that they've gone through, I think Sankar Kumar and his folks need to be given a huge credit for being instrumental in bringing this album out. I've been following the effort right from the day Sridhar Seetharaman started the thread in tfmpage about this, and the efforts of these volunteers are just astounding. Sure, things could have been done better, but given that this is the first time such a project was being done, to get the album in hand itself was a culmination of all their efforts over such a long time.

I think in the media coverage back in India, and in the album cover itself, the US group didn't get the credit that it deserved.

It will be interesting to see their final financial charts and see how they fared. It will be interesting to see if they can sell 5K or 10K CDs in US alone.

- The album seems to have been produced well. The booklet that came with it was well designed. The handwritten lyrics (written by IR himself? ) helped me understand a few words that were unclear from listening to the album.

- Coming to the album itself, after listening to it many times, I got the feeling that it was really underwhelming. The album had lots of glimpses of IR's genius, and had musical moments that gave me goosebumps, but it left me unsatisfied.

- The masterpiece of the album is the second song, "pollaa vinaiyEn". It runs for about 20 minutes and is easily the piece in which IR brings out the essence of what he has to convey about Thiruvasagam. The juxtaposition of Thiruvasagam verses with English lyrics (which are simple or cheesy depending on your outlook) worked really well. The piece culminates with a crescendo that was a fitting end to this long song.

- I think the sixth song, "puRRil vaazh aravum" was designed by IR to be the first piece of the album, but somehow it ended as the last one. It starts off with IR saying "idhu thaan symphony orchestravaa?" with a naive tone that was very cheesy and annoying. I agree with Venkat that it was not in good taste. The sixth song is easily hummable and latches on quickly.

- The main downside of the album for me was IR's singing. I shake my head wondering why he decided to sing all these songs himself. Didn't he visualize anyone else singing? Didn't Father Gasper or anyone else point out that may be a better singer will add more value? He is off-key so many times that I lost count. He strains, sounds nasal and struggles to reach high pitch. My doubt is, did he think these are minor things that people won't notice? Doesn't good singing matter? I understand that IR brings a load of spiritual luggage with his voice, he sounds like a "believer", his voice portrays the emotion and so on, but again, doesn't good singing matter? Are there not singers who can do a much better job? If these things didn't matter, why bother with a pitch perfect orchestra and all that? That was all done for the musical value, right? Then why not have the singing match that?

- I expected more from the orchestra, but IR has used it predominantly as a melody follower to his singing. In his film songs, he has given us so many fascinating counterpoints and other gems of Western Classical music, but in this album, the orchestra doesn't give us much other than following the melody with its strings and flutes. There are no length instrumental pieces or memorable themes that the orchestra plays with aplomb. I felt that we were served with only "appaLam and oorukaai" where IR could have given us more.

- Bhavatharini manages to come through and delivers her song well. The fifth song, sung by a number of singers other that IR, has also come out well. It makes me wonder how the other songs would have sounded if they were sung by different singers.

- There is a lot more that I want to write on the album, but I will leave that for later.

Is this album worth listening? Absolutely.
Is this IR's best creative effort? Not at all.
Is this a pure Western classical crossover? No.
Is this album so unmarketable that it needed to be made in this tortuous fashion? No. If L.Subramaniam can come out with "Live in Moscow" with the Russian orchestra (Actually, I won't rate his effort to be any lower that IR's), IR could have easily made this album with a music label with much less hassle.
Is this something that an Indian orchestra couldn't have done? I doubt it. I think an Indian orchestra would have had no less an impact.
Has IR delivered his magnum opus? I think this is just a start. Since the feedback from all quarters is mostly positive, IR should do more of these.

- Sabarivasan writes:

However much one tries to have an open mind, when an album of this scale by a composer of this stature releases, it is impossible to not have any expectations built up. It definitely does not help when the composer himself makes a statement about the album (Water, anyone?). In this case, I believe Ilayaraja made a statement to the effect that every composer in his/her career comes across an opportunity to create music that he/she is destined for and he believes that Thiruvasagam was his.

I have talked about my expectations of the quality of music in this album. An added difficulty in this case was what type of music to expect. The title of the album is “Thiruvasagam in Symphony” but the release function had a big banner with the text “An Oratorio by Ilayaraja”.

Now a Symphony and an Oratorio are entirely different beasts. The latter came into being in the Baroque period and can be loosely defined as an opera based on a religious subject, usually Biblical, which leads us to a description of an opera. The opera became popular because the Baroque became fascinated by the theater. The opera combined poetry, musical, vocal virtuosity, dance into one and became popular. Handel’s Messiah is probably the most famous oratorio that is still being played today. Now, vocal virtuosity is exactly the element that is missing in this album. It is appalling indeed to see Ilayaraja singing himself. His voice does not sound as old as it has in recent times but for an album of this stature, why would he choose to render all the songs? He (and everyone in his family, I might add) has been making this mistake for a long time in Tamil movies. It would be interesting to know what goes through a composer’s head before deciding to use his/her voice for a song. I have seen Ilayaraja spoil many a brilliant song by choosing to sing it himself. This is the biggest blunder of Ilayaraja as far as Thiruvasagam goes. Even if he was worried by about Tamil pronunciation, there are so many people who could have replaced him effectively. The choice of the tenor to sing the English lyrics was also a disappointment in my opinion. There are so many tenors with more magnetic and majestic voices. The chorus, both Tamil and English, on the other hand, was very effective.

The Symphony is meant to be an impressive concert piece, displaying the variety and flexibility of sound that can be played by the various components of an orchestra. Thiruvasagam, once again, does not resemble a symphony. A symphony is a multi-movement piece of varied pace. However much I tried I could not find anything in the album that I could find to fit the definition of a symphony. I was trying to see if we could treat each piece as a single movement of a symphony (the first or the slow movement as the case may be) but none of them had a definite form like Sonata form. The musical themes of the pieces were different enough that one could not call them Exposition, Development and Recapitulation. Another form I tried was the classical variation form, with a theme followed by a series of variations, each of which different from one another. If you listen to the different verses, there is definitely not much different from one to another and there is no sequence or logical progression from one to the next.

So, I decided to view this album as religious verses set to music accompanied by a symphony orchestra and choir. If one were to look at the pieces with this perspective, one is definitely left with a lot of material to deal with. It seems also that Ilayaraja, for the most part was thinking of “tunes” in his head and trying to beautify with orchestral instruments. The last piece in the album (where Ilayaraja starts with “Idhudhaan Symphony Orchestra vaa?” also seems to bolster this argument). He finds a tune and tries to fit a Thiruvasagam verse to the tune. He discards one verse because the words do not seem to fit perfectly. Unfortunately this is how classical music is composed.

That said, I have tried to write my feelings down as I listen to the longest piece, intended to be its highlight. I have only listened to it 4 times, much less than the usual number before I write something about it.

Ilayaraja starts the piece with “Polla Vinayae”. Almost immediately, the strings take over.
At 0:45, you would hear strings playing a single note immediately followed by a bass drum, playing 3 notes. This is a neat thing that has been done several times in classical music (the one I remember off the top of my head is one of Tchaikovsky’s symphonies - 4th if I am not mistaken).
The soprano sings the English phrase (“I am just a man...”). Ilayaraja’s genius for orchestration starts showing as soon as 1:15, when the 2nd violins playing staccato and crescendo up to be accompanied by 1st violins playing a wonderful theme. It lasts only 10-12 seconds though. Somehow at this stage, I don’t like the English voice as much as Ilayaraja’s voice. “Gnanamagi...chudarae” is backed by wonderful flute and strings in the background. At this stage, the harp makes its first appearance. Male chorus follows suit at 2:45. A solo Indian violin (this is interesting. None of the violins in a traditional western orchestra sound Indian, so I am sure this instrument must have been brought from India. The question is, did an Indian play this or did a member of the original Budapest Symphony orchestra play this?) “yezhanchufies” at this stage to lead to the end of the 1st part of this piece, marked by the orchestra (and the strings) singing the same note in unison twice.
We are only 3:30 into the piece and already so much material has been packed already into it. (Please don’t tell me that Ilayaraja composed this extemporaneously like he does Tamil film music).

The 2nd part starts up being more lively and high paced. At 4:20, the harp makes its 2nd appearance followed by the oboe. The highlight of the 2nd part is that it is the 1st time the Indian and the western chorus merge together. There are 4 choruses in total, Indian (Tamil) male, Indian (Tamil) female, Western (English) male and Western (Tamil) female, in addition to Ilayaraja and the tenor’s voices. Ilayaraja uses all of them exceedingly well throughout the piece, whether to build up the momentum or slow down a crescendo created by the orchestra, or for pure melody. At no place during the entire piece are you surprised by or annoyed by any of them. I believe (and many agree) that Mozart’s music is extremely simple, it almost makes logical sense once you hear it or you see it on paper, but it is impossible for anyone to create something like it. I think this piece makes me feel the same way.

The 3rd part goes “Namasivaya vaazhga” and is very impressive backed by tamil and english chorus. In terms of orchestra, it is accompanied by several strings, flute from the woodwinds, bass drum and triangle from percusson section. Pity it lasts only 1.30.

Without an exception, all the transitions are very smooth, again to Ilayaraja’ credit, particularly in a long piece like this.

The part from 7:30 is where I lost a little bit of interest. I thought the orchestra, particularly the strings simply follow the voices without doing anything special.
The part from 10:15 is for the tenor to show his mettle. The 1st time piano is used for a limited time. But since the tenor’s voice is not impressive by any means, this part fails to make its mark.

Ilayaraja comes back for some more verses at 11:45 culminating at 12.50 for a series of verses with the Indian male chorus repeats last word of each of the verses rendered by Ilayaraja. This would have so much more impressive if someone else sang it. One more notable point in this part is that the orchestra does not play at all for almost 3 minutes.

At 14:45, another beautiful tune “Maasatra jothi..” is rendered by Ilayaraja and Tamil female chorus accompanied mostly by strings and woodwinds, bass drum playing a simple rhythm. This part is very beautiful albeit being completely Tamil (nothing western about it). Ilayaraja could have made some 5 songs in Tamil movies with the material in this 2:30 part.

To me, the ending of the piece is the best one hands down. The last 2:50 minutes of the song starting around 17:55 “Eesan adi potri” has all parts of the chorus playing alternately, each one handing over the baton to the other and everything works magically and seemlessly. For one example, listen to “Namasivaya vaazhga” sung by the female Indian chorus immediately followed by the female Western chorus, pure genius. All of them work towards the ending in a typical operatic crescendo.

Overall, this piece is definitely the pick of the album. Very moving indeed.

People say that they have a spiritual experience and they were brought to tears when they listened to this piece with their eyes closed. Well, I did not have one, nor did I cry. (I do give you the fact that I am not a very religious person but I did cry when I first heard the 1st movement from Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, Mozart’s 25th Symphony and Mozart’s Requiem.). I will say this much: I don’t think I have heard a piece like this before that blends Tamil lyrics and Tamil-style singing so well with western orchestration and operatic singing. In my opinion, saying anything beyond this would not be justice. Calling it a symphony or an oratorio is probably a little bit of a stretch. (Interestingly, just yesterday, my friends and I were listening to “Hazir” by Hariharan and discussing how he likes to call it (and other albums) a collection of authentic Ghazals. We can all be nice and help preserve the fiction.).

One big disappointment for me from this album is the absence of pure instrumentals or atleast instrument-dominated pieces. An overture to the album akin to an overture to an opera would have been lovely. Given Ilayaraja’s musical gift and for orchestration in particular, that would have been a very good idea.

The 2nd disappointment was that the all the elements of the orchestra were not used. The strings section was used well. In the woodwinds section, I remember the flute and oboe used sparingly but none of the others. The brass section was hardly used (I vaguely remember there being trombone on another piece).

Several times, I asked myself this question: Aren’t there Ilayaraja songs already that have out-of-the-world orchestration that are decades ahead of its time?. If I were to listen to the beginning of “Edho Mogam” from “Kozhi Koovudhu” played by the same orchestra, wouldn’t it have similar impact than this one? (Just imagine 50 violins playing the piece with the same crispness that we hear in the Budapest Symphony Orchestra.)
To answer this question, I picked up my “Devadhai” CD, loaded it into my player, closed my eyes and listened to “Oru Naal”. I must say it had a big impact. “Oru Naal” has almost the same elements as this one: lovely strings, female and male chorus, grandeur, etc. I am not sure how many people will agree with me on this point.

I am not sure if people noticed this but Unnikrishnan sings a single line (3 secs total). What’s up with that? I am not sure if Ilayaraja had a complete piece for Unnikrishnan which was later left out. Unnikrishnan was also apparently present in the CD release function.

I am very happy to see Ilayaraja finally looking at serious music much beyond Tamil film music. In my opinion, he should stop scoring music for movies and concentrate only on attempts like this one. Who knows, in five years, we might have a full-scale Tamil opera seria set to amazing music by our man. If he is not the first Indian to do it first, I am not sure who can.

- Review by MS: http://www.dhool.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3057

[Guest]

You have reflected many of my thoughts, thanks BB as I did not want to be party pooper on the other site

Plus points
a. Great idea
b. Excellent orchestartion

Minus points
a. IR singing most of the songs. Fails at high pitches and there is no range at all in his voice. What was he thinking? Bhava was another not so good choice though she sounded better. Vani/Uma/Ramanan/Nityashree/Deepan C/Tippu and other Tamil singers would have been good choices.

b. Sounded to me like Gospel at many places. (I have nothing against GOSPEL). Western need not sound like a Christian hymn is my feeling.

Worth listening, no doubt

Thanks
Bala

[vijay]

Interesting takes, bb and sabari. Have listened to it only once so far. Need to listen to it a few more times. Pooveru Konum jumped out at me the first time around, probably because the scale was familiar and this song didnt have the constantly changing texture some others did. The way every verse ends in "KOthumbi" and the way it has been tuned and rendered was pleasing. The others songs held my attention only in parts.

I agree with you guys on some of the points. Sabari, Raja had recently said something about singers grasping "kaalapramaaNam" and the extent of their emotional involvement in the project as reasons for him singing most of the songs in a kumudam interview. Just FYI. It sounded only partly convincing, especially since he has made use of other singers in this album.Regarding your comparisons to Yedho Mogham or other songs, its a difficult comparison. The scope of TIS probably restricts grandeur in composition. (I might be wrong but does'nt an Oratorio itself by virtue of its definition/structure has less elaborate arrangements when compared to a symphony?) Its easy to pack a lot of energy into a 4-minute song like Aruna Girana and stun the audience. And film songs also are composed for different situations, unlike TIS, and are meant to evoke different moods. But a 10-to-20 minute piece with constantly changing scales and time signatures does take quite a bit of time to sink in. Maybe grandeur was'nt intended as the theme was devotion. Maybe the depth in the orchestration was'nt supposed to be obvious to the listener. I am just thinking aloud here. This cannot be compared with anything that I have heard before. Not a Bach or Mozart symphony, not even Handel's Messiah nor with any of IR's own earlier creations. This falls in a different new genre and we have to just take it(or leave it) for what it is.

[vijay]

Just FYI, to interested posters here, IR's recent live program in Italy(at the request of an Italian musician-fan) has come out on CD. It has a some of his old songs rendered live on stage by current day singers and a couple of new compositions created just for this live performance. Highlight is the performance of "veettukum veetukkum", instrumental version of "sangathil paadaadha kavidhai" and a 3-note composition. Details here
http://www.squidco.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=4900&Category_Code=

you can listen to sound samples here
http://www.agimusic.com/Ilayaraja's%20music%20journey.htm

After TIS, good for some light listening.

[sabari]

One thing I wanted to mention but forgot was that it was extremely nice to see IR and ARR (in addition to several other leading Tamil music directors) at the release function, sitting next to each other completely at ease (see more than 80 pics at http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/tamil/gallery/Events/7635.html) . I think it sends a strong message of harmony. Apparently after ARR listened to the 20 minute piece, he commented that IR was a "national treasure".

Hypoethetically, if Anu Malik were to release an album like this (I agree, he is incapable, that is why "hypothetically"), I am not sure if other music Hindi film directors would even bother to come.

[sriks]

Thiruvasagam is a massive subject and Western Classical /Oratorio is another massive subject. The composer who tries to merge both the subjects is expected to know at least 80% of both the subjects. I need not vouch for Ilayaraja’s knowledge in both the areas.

In order to review such works the reviewer should have considerable knowledge on both the subjects. I have not come across anyone yet who knows the grammar of an Oratorio and Thiruvasagam together. What I mean is the reviewer’s knowledge should be more than what “Google” search offers. I feel this is essential in order to understand this genre of music.

In the world of Amateur reviewers and Bloggers, I see this. Play the CD and listen to all 6 tracks and start writing a review, “song-A” has mesmerizing counter points all over the track. I bet from the technical side, only a minority would really know about a counter point. There will be just a handful who really understands counter points placed between Thiruvasagam verses.

The next comment, The pitch and landing problems during the rendering. “Many have commented verses are off key in few places and bothering”, I find this to be totally superficial. This is what Ilayaraja has been singing in the movies. This is a known fact that he goes off-key on various occasions in film songs. Nothing new, we need to remember this is not a song, This is a verse so I really do not know if this would fit into the grammar of Carnatic music while rendering.
Yes! I hear "Picth is important in any kind of music" Frankly, this issue does not write off the entire effort. If you don’t agree with me, you should be ready to write of all the songs sung by him in the past.

Crossover or not? How many really know what crossover is all about? Or I would rephrase, what is crossover music? From what little I know - If you remove the lead vocals, this would be a top class western classical work and if you remove the backgrounds scores this would be a Thiruvasagam rendering. Nothing would change; The scores blends well in most “points” when mixed, frankly the blending and negotiations seemed seamless in most places. Why does it blend? Harmonies, Harmonies blend both the forms perfectly and in fact I was amazed to find we can do such things in harmony construction. When a new genre is born there would be confusion that could draw criticism due to lack of knowledge.

Tamilians have been exposed to Ilayaraja’s style of western classical arrangement for 2 decades now. Hence most would not hesitate to second-guess or compare musical parts from his earlier movie tracks. This just shows the enormous following Raja has in film music genre. But think about a westerner who has not heard his work before, he/she would find it unique and talk about this, after all this can encourage more composers to work on this new genre.

Considering all these factors, as I mentioned my Blog http://srikanthd.blogspot.com earlier, Thiruvasagam Oratorio by Illayaraja should NOT be reviewed or compared with any kind of film music. This is different and this needs proper mood to listen. The finer points in music needs to be understood as a whole package, this takes time, time in the sense a calendar not a stopwatch. Bottom line as a whole package - this effort is unique and an experiment that will open a new genre for composers. , a good start.

The only issue I can question at this point of time is producers missing out or ignoring NRI contributions. When corporate sponsors deserves logo for their contributions, I feel NRI deserves an acknowledgement. Most NRI’s in USA know that Mr. Shankar Kumar, Mr.Sridhar Seetharaman and their team of IR fans worked hard to get the funds. Please remember that many contributed from their personal savings just for the passion they have for IR’s music. I like to ask Rev. Jegath, why NRI contributions were never mentioned anywhere?

Cheers.
_________________
Sriks
http://www.srikanthd.com
http://srikanthd.blogspot.com/

[kathir]

We witnessed Rev Jegath honor personally Mr Venkat Bala who contributed from our area. He was presented a shawl.

Leaving that aside. Not knowledgeable in the intricate details of music, the whole experience of listening makes a person like me shed tears. kuRai onRun illai!

It also requires on to understand Tamil and feel the words and the import.
Vaathavoorar in Sivapuranam has recommended "solliya paattin poruL uNarnthu solluvaar". Ilayaraaja hails Manikkavasar in the last line of the last song, "vaathavoor adikaL vaazhga
vaazththum avar adiyaar vaazhga".

We owe it to those generous souls who contributed their mite to make all
this happen.

vaazhga!!

[paadal_kalai]

I am not going to say much , just to add what you guys said, its all great ,but when i downloaded the lyrics of "Thirivasakam" and tried to listen the songs with those lyrics, songs werent sequential , or am i missing something?

here is the lyrics

http://www.shaivam.org/tamil/thivach1.pdf
http://www.shaivam.org/tamil/thivach2.pdf

i am not sure, it should be like this or you can do in whatever format..


but the best is ,

imaippozudhum en nenychil nINgAdhAn thAL vAzga...

Verdict:

"Thiruvasakathuku Urukar Oru vasakathukum Urukar..."

[Guest]

In TIS,IRaye most of the songs paadi irukar.Idhai kumudham interview vil ketta podhu IR, kai viralil oru soduku pottu kanbithu,'Kaalapramanam" enru solli adhu miga mukiyam enru karudhi dhan naanae padinaen enru solli irukirar.
'Ennudiaya indha kadumaiyana uzhaipum,TIS in mel ulla eedupaataium naan eppadi matravargalidam edhir parka mudiyum' enru kuri irukirar.
Adhai anru paditha podhu, enaku ,edho periyadhaga solli irukirar enru unara mudindhadhu. Anal depth aga unara mudiyavillai.
Anal inru pala idangalil TIS patrium IR padiyadhu patrium vimarsanam (nammudiaya opinion solvadhu enbadhu veru.Vimarsippadhu enbadhu veru.Irandirkum oru siriya vidhyasam irukiradho enru feel pannugiraen. Opinion enabadhu i feel enru solvadhu pol. Anal Vimarsanam enbadhu namakum konjam therindhu irukum podhu adhai patri pesuvadhu enru ninaikiraen.Eppodhu konjam therindhu kondu pesuvomo,appodhu oru feelings varum.Ellam therindhu kondu pesa vendum enru.Eppodhu ellam therindhu kolla vendum enra thoughts varugiradho appodhu vimarsikka thonradhu.Infact oru surprise or respect dhan varum.Yar melayum ,endha vishayamaga irudhalum.
IR TIS in dhodarbaga, inru vimarsanathirku ullagi irukirar.Ippodhu dhan avarudaiya varthaigalin unmai purigiradhu.Ethanai peruku Manikavasagarin Thiruvasagam patriyum ,avarudiaya deep feelings um therindhu irukum.IR isai amaikum indha symphonyum ortarioum therindhu irukum.Appodhu eppadi avar edhir parkum perfection kedaikum.
Indha vidhamana enngalal dhan IR thanae paadi irupar.I think.Eedupaadu enbadhu miga mukkiyamana onru.Andha feelings dhan best result ai kodukum.
Idhu dhan enaku TIS kekkum podhellam varum ennam. Idhu yaraium punpadutha sollavillai.Naan paditha IR in vaarthaigalil unmai irukiradho enru thonriyadhu.Adhanal ezhudhinaen.Just share seidhu kolgiraen.Thats all.
With Love,
Usha Sankar.

[mohan]

Like Vijay said, we can't view this masterpiece with the lenses of film albums. It is not our fault, that is media we all know (mostly) in the music domain. I think time has come to change that mindset.

For a common man, this album exposes many avenues in the music domain.

I personally think:
This will make current generation and next generations to take new affectionate look at Tamil literature and enjoy the gems of it. New WCM composers will emerge in our area. We may see a set of Broadway singers from our area. Younger generations will be desperately searching for Tamil literature ( this is already happening, my Thiruvasagam book is in heavy demand after the release of this album)

Like, Srikanth said precisely, it requires a special skill to review this album. Writing few lines after listening few little times and giving stars like reviewing a film album (like Guru) really hurts.

Regarding Raaja's voice, this work clearly requires, a person with deep love for the great saint's work. I think Raaja and his voice fit there. We can clearly find the reasons why Raaja has used other voices in the album by looking at the core theme of those songs. Pandits may say Raaj's voice is little off key in some places. For a common man, it is totally irrelevant.

Major goal of this album is to make the younger generation to know about worth of Tamil literature and feel what they were missing all along. I think this album has reached that goal in a splendid way and paved an avenue to preserve Tamil literature in a unique way.

[Guest]

First, I want to congratulate all the contributors and more important, the humble requesters for contributions like Dr.Sankar Kumar who had to withstand the brickbats of the naysayers towards this project – I was one of the naysayers too. There are not too many thamizh musical projects which involve the fruition of such collective and dedicated efforts. Second, I want TbI to be very succesful. Like every music lover that I know, I am also a fan of Ilayaraja and think the world of his music. I am trying my best to push the sales of the CDs in my city and encouraging my friends to get a legal copy. Irrespective of the quality of the music, I will never feel cheated for spending $15 on a CD which has Ilayaraja’s name on it.

Now let me come to the musical part. Here are some of my thoughts-

1. I disagree that one should know atleast 80% of Thiruvasagam and 80% of Western Classical music to appreciate TbI. I definitely do not know 80% of MalayaLam or progressions, counterpoints, symphony, theruppuzhudhi….and still had a marvellous time enjoying the songs from Guru. I also do not agree that one should have some pre-requisite knowledge, mood, custom stereo-system to enjoy and appreciate music/TbI.
2. I find TbI to be slow and sad in many parts. Somehow the entire album lacked “punch”. Sure it had some very good instrumentation but heck, Budapest Symphonmy Orchestra vaasichchaa ‘Sa Pa Sa’ kooda amruthamaa irukkum. I know thiruvaasagam is about humility too, but does it have to sound sad?
3. IR’s voice has a tremendous positive – it sounds very sincere and emotional as far as the lyrics are concerned. It also has a downside – leave alone the missed notes, he just does not have the dexterity to travel through the notes of the various raagams with the minimum vocal command that is needed. Honestly, this sounds like an amateur singer who got his hands on an excellent Karaoke track.
4. There was some talk about a special “Western Classical notation for the Carnatic music” as a by-product of this project. I have not heard a single piece in the album which either uses or calls for special notations for CM. IR has carefully avoided using ganaraagams like thOdi, bairavi, naattai, etc.. It would have been great to have got those out of the Orchestra, but it would have also been a challenge to have them rendered in IR’s voice.
5. There is some mention about “kaalapramaaNam”. There is nothing in TbI which is challenging for a reasonably talented vocalist that “only IR could deliver” (of all the people, he is one who has been around the best vocal talents of our times). In fact, if he said so and if in that context, then it is insulting to his vocal peers in Carnatic and Film music.

Once again, I strongly encourage everybody to get a legal copy of TbI. Nothing can diminish the greatness of Ilayaraja. I was hoping that TbI would enhance it to even greater heights. I guess I just have to wait some more.

-rajaG

[bb]

[bb]

[Da Vinci]

I am still waiting to hear the pieces. It should be something remarkable as I understand from various comments and from what I know of the Maestro.

What I don’t understand is that why this attempt should encourage more interest in similar Literature of Tamil Language which should be healthy. I can only relate a poetical work as the Thiruvasagam with the typical melody of the Odhuvar (even without any percussion) that you typically hear in every remote Shiva Temple of Tamilnadu. While that would arouse related feelings in me that I have imbibed through generations of my heritage, I doubt if the oratorio could do the same. I can’t understand the argument either that it would do a lot of good to make such treasures known to an international audience. For, the spirit behind the work is as important to its embellishments, and to appreciate the spirit, I believe, it would need the specific setting. Even without hearing it, I think I can say that I can pay homage only to the obscure Odhuvar in the remote corner of a remote Shaiva Temple for the moving experience of religious associations and only admire the genius and technical innovations of any such attempts. (I visited Thiruvaadavur, where St.Manicka Vaasagar was born even last year and heard the moving poetry sung by the Odhuvar in a dark corner and the Temple hardly had Ten visitors)

[sshriyan]

Hi all, I have been visiting this site for a long time, cool site. keep it up.
Anyway just joined it, would like to comment on the Thiruvasagam Symphony.

Overall it's good album, however as mentioned before Ilayaraja shouldn't have sung all the songs, could have given a chance to singers like Hariharan, SPB or Unikrishnan. I have nothing against IR, he is still one of the best MD for me.

I'm originally from Sri Lanka, we hear the Thiruvasagam all the time in temples, most of us know by heart. I feel that the “pollaa vinaiyEn" song is bit complex for normal person and hard for someone to understand the lyrics and make sense, even IR had hard time to sing it in high pitch.
I don't this anyone can memorize this song by listening to it over and over. The song composition is great, but I was expecting more creativity from IR, so I was bit disappointed.

I really like the 3rd song, rest is pretty good nothing special I see there.

Finally I would like to say that this is a great piece of work that no one has done it before, at least now some one should follow IR's footstep and do some great works like this. I heard that ARR is going to do his own Symphony; I think he will do a good job too.

People should listen to this album (Do not pirate buy the CD) and appreciate the great work.

Thanks

[Shiva]

I attended the CD release function held here in DC. Fr. Gasper Raj's speech was gripping. I was going to buy a CD but bought 4 instead - symbolically to show support for this great endevour. Rev Raj, IR , Shankar Kumar and many others who have contributed to this deserve appreciation and gratitude from Tamils.

Coming to music, I wish IR had used other singers. As someone pointed out, the songs sound too much like Gospel. Logically nothing wrong with it but it definitely failed to impress at least one of my friends who knows thiruvasagam well and he said it sounds too weird. My feeling is it may turn many others off. Rev Raj said that he wanted to popularize Indian music outside India . But this music doesn't sound Indian at all.

In simple terms, why didn't IR use any gamakams ?

With thousands of music CDs to choose from, the only reason one would buy this CD is to support the idea.

[ganspb]

Great work by Mastereo.I had great expectation about this work so was not fully satisfied when I listened to it for the first few times.Now I am not able to get away from it.
Even if I get up in the middle of the night I keep hearing this work by Mastereo.So therefore I request all of you to listen more and you would like it.
I see a lot of comments about IR has sung this and off key etc.
In my humble opinion I do not see anybody in the contempary world could have sung with such a devotion.The singers like Unni,Hari etc cannot pronounce these difficult words.The only person who could have done justice with this project is an old TMS in the 50s who had the divininty in his voice,diction but can he fit in a Symphony.I am not sure.
I see this album compared to guru a lot.First of all in my opinion about Guru ,KJY was offkey in lot of places that too in higher notes.Compared to that album IR has done a great job singing Thiruvasakam without much flaw.
I agree with Srikanth that it cannot be reviewd and only cherished.

[Guest]

How come you guys have the song online as it is still copyrighted ? Isn't it a violation of music industry rules ?

[Sivasuresh]

Fantastic work by the Maestro! I have no conplaints about his singing at all. It's all about devotion and as a common man I have been captivated by the music at its best. This won't sound like Thiruvasagam sung in temples, as this is a cross-over attempt. Its time wasting to compare against that. Sweet melodies and brilliant switching between emotions!!! Carefully listen to every part to feel the change in moods with this song.

Guys, forget about Raaja and listen to this music without prejudice. No expert reviews on these attempts please, let alone Raaja. If someone can do that, they should be in Kodambakkam already to say the least.

Long live Raaja! Let him bring more Treasures!!

Thanks.

[Murali Venkatraman]

After multiple listenings trying to understand the music, the track 3 - poovEru - has left me immobile many times with tears and goose bumps. The portion especially:

"naanaar en uLLamaar gnaangaLaar ennai aar aRivaar
vaanOr piraan ennai aaNdilanEl ?"

Being a believer that I am, I could not ask for a better tune for these two lines. The word "aaNdilanEl" simply captures the helplessness of the devotee. Two beautiful songs lyrics come to my mind which express the feeling I went through after listenign to the track 3.

(1) "Aathmavin pusthaka thaalil oru mayil peeli pidanju" - Kaithapram Damodaran Namboothiri

the feather of the peacock teased the book of atma..IR's tune did exactly the same.

(2) "aRiyaathE aathmaavil chiragu kudanjOr azagE" - Rameshan nair

meaning : you teased my athma with a feather
_________________
MS (Murali Venkatraman)

envazi isaivazi
email - cfdmodeler-dhool@yahoo.com
site - http://swara.blogspot.com

[Murali Venkatraman]

After multiple listenings trying to understand the music, the track 3 - poovEru - has left me immobile many times with tears and goose bumps. The portion especially:

"naanaar en uLLamaar gnaangaLaar ennai aar aRivaar
vaanOr piraan ennai aaNdilanEl ?"

Being a believer that I am, I could not ask for a better tune for these two lines. The word "aaNdilanEl" simply captures the helplessness of the devotee. Two beautiful songs lyrics come to my mind which express the feeling I went through after listenign to the track 3.

(1) "Aathmavin pusthaka thaalil oru mayil peeli pidanju" - Kaithapram Damodaran Namboothiri

the feather of the peacock teased the book of atma..IR's tune did exactly the same.

(2) "aRiyaathE aathmaavil chiragu kudanjOr azagE" - Rameshan nair

meaning : you teased my athma with a feather
_________________
MS (Murali Venkatraman)

envazi isaivazi
email - cfdmodeler-dhool@yahoo.com
site - http://swara.blogspot.com

[vijay]

Amen. One song, where notwithstanding the singer's limitations, there are quite a few elevating moments. I believe the last but 2nd or 3rd stanza also has the word "aaNdilanel" portrayed in a different but effective manner. Have found it difficult to come out of this song and listen to the other ones.

[mohan]

vijayr/MS, you are right. I have not come out of it even after 135th time and counting. In this process I have the lyrics by heart. After a while, we may not need a CD player -- the mind will play the song with full orchestration...

[Dinakaran]

Whatever be the drawbacks in IR's Thiruvasagam, we must appreciate his effort in bringing the great work to the level of persons like me, who have never heard Thiruvasagam. In fact, the success of the venture is proved when even kids have taken to it.
My daughter (8 years old) can sing almost all the songs and pesters me to play the cd every morning. If IR has been able to make even kids want listen to Thiruvasagam, I think the objective has been realised.
As for me, I am IR's fan. I listen to Carnatic and Western classical, but my knowledge is zero. For persons like me, who are not bothered about the intricacies, this is a gold mine.

[music_fan1]

I could feel that everybody agrees to the fact that TIS is first of its kind!!!!
But, there are couple of common thoughts expressed by folks:
Lot of people seem to have problem with IR singing most of the songs.
One observation was that the instruments used & arrangements weren't grand enough as one would expect from a Symphony.
1) "IR is off-key at few places" - AGREED.
"His voice seems to be old" - AGREED.
"He is not able to scale enough with his voice" - AGREED.

How does that matter in THIS album?
Having agreed to all of the 3 above, I love to disagree completely with the argument that "Unni, Hariharan" would have done a better job.
I have often wondered why the pointer on the AC control unit points at 60 F looking at it from my bed or from my desk.
Then, when I went near it...I found that it was because there is something called "Parallax Error"

Let me explain what you might already know: "Error that can be introduced when not reading an instrument directly from its front, due to the separation of the indicator and the scale being read."

The same is happening to so many people.. Voice has various attributes. Scaling is one of them. He might have not outscored in Scaling.
Come on!! Have you ever questioned why "Pithukuli Murugadas"'s voice not soft?

Whenever I hear to "Murugadas"'s voice... I think of "Chinna Kannan" dancing in front of him...and he melts while praising Him.

IR has melted and has succeeded in melting thousands of souls with his divine voice...
If you see "off key" here.. you are having "Parallax Error" (not in vision) but in music...
So, my prescription to you is try to come to the RIGHT Plane to join the journey..

What matters the MOST in this album are:

a) Delivering the DIVINITY to thousands of SOULS.
b) Making the younger generation look back at Thiruvasagam, a great epic.
c) Delivering in musical form without distorting its beauty with RIGHT Pronounciation.

Did IR succeed? A Big YES!!

His objective succeeded!!

2) He is not proving his musical competencies here..He has done that already to the world.
This album is to deliver Thiruvasagam in musical form to make younger generation aware!!
He is not trying another GURU here...

As a software developer, I might know 100 technologies, components. But, I apply only those based on the problem I attack, client I deal & budget that I have.
Quite as simple as that..

Rest my case.

[bb]

music_fan1, if IR's voice falling off-key doesn't matter, if IR is not proving his musical competencies, then why bother with a pitch perfect orchestra? Why bother with right pronounciation? After all, it is the "emotion" in the voice that matters, right?

[bb]

music_fan1, if IR's voice falling off-key doesn't matter, if IR is not proving his musical competencies, then why bother with a pitch perfect orchestra? Why bother with right pronounciation? After all, it is the "emotion" in the voice that matters, right?

[Murali Venkatraman]

IMHO, this album is fantastic. But if there be one easy reason why it would not merit a grammy (if sent for nomination) is IR's offkey singing. The orchestration is simply mind blowing. But well, I guess IR did not aim for musical awards when writing this score. I guess, he just wanted to write a grand symphony for thiruvasagam and deliver it in a pious manner irrespective of commercial returns or recognition. If so, he has indeed achieved.

[Murali Venkatraman]

IMHO, this album is fantastic. But if there be one easy reason why it would not merit a grammy (if sent for nomination) is IR's offkey singing. The orchestration is simply mind blowing. But well, I guess IR did not aim for musical awards when writing this score. I guess, he just wanted to write a grand symphony for thiruvasagam and deliver it in a pious manner irrespective of commercial returns or recognition. If so, he has indeed achieved.

[music_fan1]

[Guest]

music fan1, you should understand that people are'nt criticizing IR here as much as they are expressing their angst at what could have been. From a practical point of view, I can understand the difficulties in making someone else sing with the same involvement, especially if monetary constraints were present. But musically, there is nothing much to justify that only IR could have rendered it.

If you listen to "amma endrazhaikaadha" from Mannan, KJY has delivered it with the right emotion/technical proficiency/pronunciation. UnniK has done the same with "uyirum neeye" from Pavithra. Emotion/bhaavam is not something that is exclusively possessed by IR. In fact it is the basic trait as far as carnatic singing is concerned and most good singers possess it.
(As for "idhayam oru kovil" your opinion would be in the minority)


And as for pronunciation, if IR
could make Bhavathrini(who has had a history of problems with "La" and "zha" in spite of being a "Thamizh poNNu") sing competently, then this becomes a non-issue for singers with an already better pronunciation to begin with. Most of whom have sung "Muthu natramum" are Malayalam singers I believe.

[Guest]

Greetings to everyone:
I am writing this from Toronto. For the last few days I was trying to get the "original" Thiruvasagam CD from the local stores here, sad to say none of them have it. BUT they are selling the pirated copies for CAD$ 5. I am very sad and preety upset. I mentioned my dissapointments with the shop keepers. Obvisouly they care less. not one store..Toronto's 3 popular Tamil Video/Audio stores doing the same thing.
My Question is? Is this project legaly registered? Copyright !!!
If so can someone do something about such activities?
It is very sad, People have gone through so much to get this projet done selling their properties, putting forward all their life time savings...
I am determined to get the original and original only. I don't know why they did not market the CD here.
I have no problem mentioning the names of the Stores.
As Tamils we should appriciate the boldness and courage of people like IR and all those involved in bringing up Thiruvasagam in simple form for us.

[Guest]

Can you please mail the names of the shops in Toronto , which are selling this pirated CD to tis-usa.com

Thanks

[Guest]